Starting problems!!!

[Moneypit]

Having some problems starting the Midas at the moment and was wondering if anybody could throw a little light before I start searching in earnest?

It's got a pretty standard 1275 metro engine with the contactless dizzy.

When cold, it will turn over at a good speed but won't fire. Fuel seems to be getting there and there is a spark even if a little weak looking.
As soon as I stop cranking the engine it will try to fire. Can a faulty starter have these symptoms? Drawing a larger than usual current, upsetting the ignition or is it more likely the coil.

When it does start, it runs fine and when warm it starts. Some times though on starting (when hot), it will be turning over then stop cranking momentarily (almost like a back fire) then carry on and start!!

Cheers

Dave

[DavidL]

Where is the battery? Has it been relocated at the back of the car?

My old Bronze had intermittent starting problems, not quite the same but turned over fine when cold (although it would start). However when warm, if I stalled it, the starter motor would only turn over slowly which I think may have been because the main cables weren't a big enough cross section. I tried replacing everything else*, without any noticeable result.

Wild stab in the dark but if it sounds like not enough current available to start the car then something like that may be the reason.

* Starter motor - replaced
Solenoid - replaced
Plugs - replaced
Plug leads - replaced
Points - replaced
Condenser - replaced
Coil - replaced

Battery seemed otherwise OK and also got swapped with a known good one. Don't think I replaced the distributor though, but I didn't see how it could have been the cause.

[Hans Efde]

You can check if the starter takes too much current. The red battery cable will be soaking hot including the starter solenoid. Check that the plus cable has a good connection to the solenoid, no dirt or corrosion. Mine was a bit loose causing too much resistance. I noticed when smoke came off the solenoid!
Check that the voltage on your battery (during starting) stays above 9,6V. That's the minimum required for starting. A healthy battery won't get below 11V.
If that's fine it must be in the ignition system. Check all connections for dirt or corrosion.
If that's okay I expect the problem to be in the starter relay, coil or the distributor. If you have spare parts that would be easy troubleshooting. First parts would be the starter relay and the coil. If that's okay it could be the electronic module on the side of the distributor. I't always good to have a spare one of these (plenty on Ebay but not cheap) since they can cause serious headaches in trouble shooting.

[Hans Efde]

Where is the battery? Has it been relocated at the back of the car?

My old Bronze had intermittent starting problems, not quite the same but turned over fine when cold (although it would start). However when warm, if I stalled it, the starter motor would only turn over slowly which I think may have been because the main cables weren't a big enough cross section. I tried replacing everything else*, without any noticeable result.

Wild stab in the dark but if it sounds like not enough current available to start the car then something like that may be the reason.

* Starter motor - replaced
Solenoid - replaced
Plugs - replaced
Plug leads - replaced
Points - replaced
Condenser - replaced
Coil - replaced

Battery seemed otherwise OK and also got swapped with a known good one. Don't think I replaced the distributor though, but I didn't see how it could have been the cause.

Have you checked the starter relay? I miss it in your list and it's a cheap and easy replaced.

[lankyjames]

I've had exactly this fault, I put a direct 12v to the coil and it starts very happily now. Bonus is route this to a switch under the dash and no one can start it without this knowledge...use a relay between so that it auto turns off without ignition (mot requirement)

[kelvink]

Have you checked your timing? It's pretty easy to do though it's been a long time since I did it I have to confess.

Try this, it should be close. Static 7 deg BTDC and Dynamic 13 deg BTDC at 1000 RPM

[DavidL]

Where is the battery? Has it been relocated at the back of the car?

My old Bronze had intermittent starting problems, not quite the same but turned over fine when cold (although it would start). However when warm, if I stalled it, the starter motor would only turn over slowly which I think may have been because the main cables weren't a big enough cross section. I tried replacing everything else*, without any noticeable result.

Wild stab in the dark but if it sounds like not enough current available to start the car then something like that may be the reason.

* Starter motor - replaced
Solenoid - replaced
Plugs - replaced
Plug leads - replaced
Points - replaced
Condenser - replaced
Coil - replaced

Battery seemed otherwise OK and also got swapped with a known good one. Don't think I replaced the distributor though, but I didn't see how it could have been the cause.

Have you checked the starter relay? I miss it in your list and it's a cheap and easy replaced.

All the above took place some time in the 1980s, Hans, but I think I checked that too. I'm almost convinced, now, that it was too much voltage drop in the cables, the combined length of which was double a standard Mini's.

[Moneypit]

Firstly, Thanks to all for the replies.
The battery is in the original position , offside front. No problems with the set up last winter so I presume battery cables up to the job. Used fully charged, new battery jumped to fitted battery with decent leads-same result.

All the connections seem sound (though engine bay looks a little like a birds nest!!), nothing appears to be getting hot but will test the cranking voltage.
Unfortunately I have no spares at all. Often looking in a the local scrappers but metros and minis are pretty well stripped of parts as they enter the yard (even in the car park if left too long! )

Fairly sure the timing is ok unless something's slipped.

I'll try the direct 12v feed. At least if it works i'll have an idea where the problem is.
I vaguely remember my dad had a similar problem with an old Austin A40. It would turn over fine on the button but not start. Wind it up with the crank handle (remember those days?) and it started.

[DavidL]

Are you using a 6V coil and ballast resistor? Makes a big difference, if I remember correctly.

[Moneypit]

Are you using a 6V coil and ballast resistor? Makes a big difference, if I remember correctly.

No.It's a 12volt.