K Series / MEMS question

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K Series / MEMS question

Postby Rich » Wed Sep 23, 2015 12:29 am

I'm having an interesting time finding the answer to this one, and I know there's a few on here with a bit of K series knowledge so here goes....

I've soldered up a Megasquirt 2 ECU for my K16 1.4, the engine started life in a '94 Metro GTi and uses a crank position sensor that reads from the flywheel and has the alloy inlet manifold. It turns out that instead of using the usual 36-1 pattern, Rover had to be special and use several different patterns over the years. I understand (think) my current ECU should be a MEMS 1.6, does anyone know what pattern should be used in a K series of this vintage?

Rich
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Re: K Series / MEMS question

Postby Hans Efde » Wed Sep 23, 2015 7:34 am

What do you mean with 36-1 pattern? I have a Haynes of the Rover 214 series so can maybe find the answer if I know what you mean.
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Re: K Series / MEMS question

Postby Rich » Wed Sep 23, 2015 10:19 am

Hi Hans,

It isn't in the Haynes manual for the Metro, it relates to the trigger wheel pattern used for the crankshaft positioning. The common wheel for many makes and MegaJolt etc has a tooth every 10 deg with one tooth missing to indicate TDC. The Rovers have the pattern hidden on the flywheel and can be 36-1-1 with two missing teeth or 36-1-1-1-1 with four missing teeth.

Ultimately I can mess about with trigger wheel patterns in the software, but as I'm operating at the outer edge of my knowledge with these things it would be nice to have all my ducks in a row.
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Re: K Series / MEMS question

Postby Hans Efde » Wed Sep 23, 2015 11:08 am

I'll have a look this evening Rich. Maybe it's in the Rover 200 manual. I still have it. I owned a 214Si 3 doors as a family car, also to get knowledge about this engine. But I had too many problems with it and will never ever have a car with the K-series engine again. When I had an electrical gremlin, the Rover dealer could not read the codes from the MEMS. Ridiculous, so everytime it was a matter of shotgunning by replacing components one at the time.
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Re: K Series / MEMS question

Postby Rich » Wed Sep 23, 2015 2:00 pm

Hans Efde wrote:I'll have a look this evening Rich. Maybe it's in the Rover 200 manual. I still have it. I owned a 214Si 3 doors as a family car, also to get knowledge about this engine. But I had too many problems with it and will never ever have a car with the K-series engine again. When I had an electrical gremlin, the Rover dealer could not read the codes from the MEMS. Ridiculous, so everytime it was a matter of shotgunning by replacing components one at the time.


From what I've found so far the engine loom is a strong suspect, I've fixed a few issues by simply stripping wires out of the loom and replacing them, plus a new plug on the ECU end. The last problem was an intermittently failing crank position sensor.
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Re: K Series / MEMS question

Postby Hans Efde » Wed Sep 23, 2015 2:34 pm

Rich wrote:
Hans Efde wrote:I'll have a look this evening Rich. Maybe it's in the Rover 200 manual. I still have it. I owned a 214Si 3 doors as a family car, also to get knowledge about this engine. But I had too many problems with it and will never ever have a car with the K-series engine again. When I had an electrical gremlin, the Rover dealer could not read the codes from the MEMS. Ridiculous, so everytime it was a matter of shotgunning by replacing components one at the time.


From what I've found so far the engine loom is a strong suspect, I've fixed a few issues by simply stripping wires out of the loom and replacing them, plus a new plug on the ECU end. The last problem was an intermittently failing crank position sensor.


That sounds similar to our experience. Spuriously our Rover would not start, hot or cold. We then fumbled with the wire loom and it would start again. Funny sight that must have been when road workers in our street witnessed my blond wife getting out of her non starting car, pop the bonnet, fumble with the wiring, start the car and close the bonnet again. But in the end the crank sensor was replaced and since then the starting problems were over. Probably a combination of both the wiring and sensor close to the operating limits.
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Re: K Series / MEMS question

Postby Rich » Wed Sep 23, 2015 5:00 pm

Hans Efde wrote:That sounds similar to our experience. Spuriously our Rover would not start, hot or cold. We then fumbled with the wire loom and it would start again. Funny sight that must have been when road workers in our street witnessed my blond wife getting out of her non starting car, pop the bonnet, fumble with the wiring, start the car and close the bonnet again. But in the end the crank sensor was replaced and since then the starting problems were over. Probably a combination of both the wiring and sensor close to the operating limits.


That does sound similar! I also appear to have cleared the common high idling problem and the dodgy fuel pump relay the same way. When I stripped the loom out I found wires that had kinks in them, particularly where the loom split into different arms. The looms appear to be constructed poorly from materials that don't stand the test of time.

The crank sensor was a weird one, when the car wouldn't start there was no signal to the coil, putting the multimeter across the sensor terminals just gave an open circuit. This persisted after I removed the sensor but later in the day it showed resistance across the terminals, presumably had it still been fitted the car would have started at this point. I've never had an intermittent failure of one of these before, they have either worked or not.
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Re: K Series / MEMS question

Postby Hans Efde » Wed Sep 23, 2015 10:38 pm

I checked the Haynes but there is no info that answers your question. Maybe you can download ignition patterns f.e. from Emerald for kseries engines and see what they did. Their software and maps are free for download. with the editing software you can see how they filled it in.
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Re: K Series / MEMS question

Postby Rich » Thu Sep 24, 2015 12:29 pm

Hans Efde wrote:I checked the Haynes but there is no info that answers your question. Maybe you can download ignition patterns f.e. from Emerald for kseries engines and see what they did. Their software and maps are free for download. with the editing software you can see how they filled it in.


Ok, I'll give it a go, thanks for looking.

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Re: K Series / MEMS question

Postby bushbaby » Mon Sep 28, 2015 8:01 am

MS2 is capable of running with all rover k flywheel patterns. From memory my MS3 is set for rover #3 pattern. It would be worth downloading the manuals from MSExtra website, loads of info and manuals over there.

What software you using? I use tuner studio.
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