Rear Brake Shoe Hold Down Springs

[All That Glisters]

I had cause to strip down a rear brake of a Rover 100 at my local scrapyard the other day and I was quite surprised to find that they had hold down springs for the brake shoes. I have always thought that there was no change between the old (A series) Metro and the newer (Rover 100) metro rear brakes.
Does anyone know why hold down springs are used?
Are the brakes more efficient with them?
Has anyone retro fitted them to a mk3?
I'm assuming that Cortezs and Excellsiors have them, has anyone removed them and tried it without?

Mark

[DavidL]

All the drum brakes I've seen from the rear of Minis and Metros had hold down springs, going back to the earliest Minis, as far as I can recall.

As for the reason they're fitted, I'm not sure, but I'd think they would stop the brake shoes from catching on the lip which usually forms inside the drum, when the drum is removed. If the springs were missing, the shoes could tip sideways and jam the drum when you tried to remove it.

[All That Glisters]

David, I have looked at a Haynes Mini manual and a Mk1 Metro manual and neither of these show the springs that I have called "holding down springs". The Rover 100 manual calls them "Shoe Retainer Springs and Pins". I don't recall seeing them on any of the Minis or Metros or Midas's that I have owned, I'm not talking about the springs that pull the shoes towards each other and resist the hydraulic pistons, these are a pin that passes through a hole in the backplate and then through the rib of the brake shoe and is held by a short spring and a collet. I should have taken a photo but my whole attention was on liberating a handbrake bracket bolted to the back of the hub.

Anyway will you be at Moffatt this year?

Regards Mark

[Rich]

Every one I've ever had has had the hold down coil springs with those maddening pins and caps.

[kelvink]

Every one I've ever had has had the hold down coil springs with those maddening pins and caps.

Same here too including Allegros too if I remember rightly

[All That Glisters]

Now this is really starting to bug me. I've just been out to the shed and looked at both sets of backplates, the old ones off C33AVC which was built from new parts in 1986 and the ones that I took off my crashed car Q815PFE which I built in 1989 from nearly new components supplied by Midas. Not one of the four backplates has holes where the pins would go through them. Were these hold down springs introduced after 89?

[wolfie]

Never had them on my mK1 metro or my Gold which used MK2 donor but I had a rover 111 which did have them. I think they were added to late MK2's for ease of maintenance when it came to pulling the drums off (and probably some stupid euro health and safety law)

[DavidL]

David, I have looked at a Haynes Mini manual and a Mk1 Metro manual and neither of these show the springs that I have called "holding down springs". The Rover 100 manual calls them "Shoe Retainer Springs and Pins". I don't recall seeing them on any of the Minis or Metros or Midas's that I have owned, I'm not talking about the springs that pull the shoes towards each other and resist the hydraulic pistons, these are a pin that passes through a hole in the backplate and then through the rib of the brake shoe and is held by a short spring and a collet. I should have taken a photo but my whole attention was on liberating a handbrake bracket bolted to the back of the hub.

Anyway will you be at Moffatt this year?

Regards Mark

Hi Mark! The retaining pins I'm thinking of have a small protrusion either side of the tip. They go through the backplate and then through the midpoint of the shoe (through the rib), then a short coil spring fits over the pin, followed by what could be described as a collet, or a washer with a turned-up edge, which has a slotted hole in it where the protrusions on the tip of the pin pass through. The collet is then turned through 90 degrees to retain it on the pin. I can't remember a Mini or Metro rear brake which hasn't had them fitted, and that's on Minis from 1959 through 1975, and a couple of early 80s Metros.

I might be at Moffat, depending on what else I'm up to around the time. It's almost a certainty I won't be in the Midas, though. I just can't see me having the time to get it reassembled by then.

[DavidL]

Now this is really starting to bug me. I've just been out to the shed and looked at both sets of backplates, the old ones off C33AVC which was built from new parts in 1986 and the ones that I took off my crashed car Q815PFE which I built in 1989 from nearly new components supplied by Midas. Not one of the four backplates has holes where the pins would go through them. Were these hold down springs introduced after 89?

I'm almost certain they've been in use on Minis since their inception in 1959. I wouldn't be surprised if they used them on Morris Minors before that...

[DavidL]

Found this diagram...
http://www.7ent.com/pages/articles-tech ... -rear.html

I've just been out to the garage to check my rear brakes, and found that mine didn't have them fitted. Looks like they might not actually be necessary.

I'm rather confused now. I didn't think there had been any change in the Mini/Metro rear bake assembly in its entire lifetime.

Any one else care to comment on this?