springs or rubber cones

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springs or rubber cones

Postby ilmung » Wed Oct 23, 2019 8:06 am

Has anyone experience with springs instead of rubber cones .
There's a lot of info on internet , but there's no real final point of view ?
Is the choice also influenced by the fact that the Midas has a GRP body against a metal body for the mini classic ?
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Re: springs or rubber cones

Postby ACourtney » Wed Oct 23, 2019 9:00 pm

Hi Geert,

I don't think you will ever get a definitive answer to what is best as ride and handling are very much a question of personal preference. One man's ideal of Go-Kart handling, is a dreadfully harsh ride to someone else.

There are pro's and cons for using either steel springs, or rubber cones and it comes down to what you require from your Midas. There is also a range of options for rubber cones, from uprated 'competition' cones to softer riding 'Moulton SmoothaRide' ones. The fact that the original suspension designer came up with a revised cone design should not put you off. Any good design engineer will immediately see a way to improve on their last design the moment it is put into production!

The disadvantage of rubber cones is that they do sag with age, lowering the front and giving a firmer, bumpier ride. Which begs the question as to why most people who take out the cones replace them with stiffer springs and lower the ride?
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Re: springs or rubber cones

Postby ilmung » Wed Oct 23, 2019 10:50 pm

Hi ,
Thanks for your reply !
Yes indeed , there's a lot of information on the net but no final conclusion ......
I just asked this because I have seen that once the engine suzuki gti is in the body you can not change easy anymore the rubber cones , because the upperarm can not be removed because everything is to tight .
Maybe you can lift the engine ...... , but I am afraid it will not work .....so you have to remove the engine of the subframe etc......
But the springs go in without any problem .
The Midas MK2 I bought in the UK had springs so I thought to use this springs ......... in mind when something happens I could change the springs without to much work .

I have also another question concerning solid mounts of the subframe :some people said if you use solid mounts for the towers , you have to use every where solid mounts .
Personally i wanted to use rubbermounts for the towers and solid for the rear mounts ( I made a lot of supplementary grp layers in that area to make this stronger).
The front mounts would also be with rubbers ,but as with a mini this is not a strong area , but I have heavily reinforced the GRP sides of the car and then with supporting metal profiles I can take
the front mounts .
But I can also can make the front mounts solid ?
What do you think personally ?
regards
geert
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Re: springs or rubber cones

Postby ACourtney » Thu Oct 24, 2019 9:03 am

Hi Geert,

I think that you have answered the spring question in your last post. If it will be much easier to access springs than rubber cones then it makes sense to go with the springs, especially as you have a set of springs that you can use.
Bear in mind that you might be changing the weight at the front end with your Suzuki conversion - might be lighter due to the all aluminium engine, but it might be heavier due to the various mods (and reinforcements) you have had to do to the subframe and bodyshell. If the weight has changed greatly then you might be looking to change the spring rate.

I would only suggest solid mounts for someone building a competition car. The rubber mounts were fitted for a reason and that is to reduce the effect of shock loads coming from the road. This is not just to reduce the shocks coming through to you in the cockpit, but also to protect the rest of the car. I would certainly not mix solid and rubber mounts as that will just put a much greater load through the solid ones.
I am a big fan of PU bushes, having discovered them in the late 1980s, when my Sierra XR4x4 used to munch through a set of standard lower arm bushes in six months. PU bushes attenuate the shock loads better than rubber, whilst deflecting less. They also last longer (that first set of PU bushes on my XR4x4 were still good 80000 miles later when I sold the car).
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Re: springs or rubber cones

Postby ilmung » Sat Oct 26, 2019 9:24 pm

Hi ,
Yes ......you spoke wise advise !!!
Geert
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